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Crit is a problem

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by Saedorn, Nov 24, 2018.

  1. Saedorn

    Saedorn New Member

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    I know this has been mentioned in more than one thread, but I have to weight in as well. Crit takes strategy out of the game unless you restart battles until you get the exact crit thread you want. It’s annoying to kite a near dead regimen to heal your troops, only to have them one shot a full health regimen as they take their last gasp. And really, who doesn’t just restart the fight once a bad crit takes out their troops early? That means crit holds no function other than to prolong play time, while making it more frustrating. Great when it goes the other way, but I can’t strategize when such a powerful anomaly is randomly appplied.

    Great game though. I’ll keep playing to be sure. I just think the game could be more enjoyable if crit was tweaked or replaced with a more interesting function.

    Saedorn
     
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  2. Jin

    Jin Well-Known Member

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    I tend to think of Critical Strikes as being 'rambo ambushed' by a one unit army. Everyone has a 'Rambo' in us waiting to bust out to strike out an army with great numbers in one hit.:):):)
     
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  3. BlueRuby

    BlueRuby Active Member

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    I don’t restart fights that go badly. It’s a part of the game, and a part that adds an element of suspense and risk. I believe it’s necessary for me/us to make the most of this game to enjoy it most fully. This risk and suspense is what gives us pleasure in our victories.

    The crits can be painful, particularly towards the end game, as you describe.
    It is possible to mitigate this, somewhat by ensuring my tanks are taking the hits, where possible and, where not, killing the enemy off to reduce exposure to these crits: it doesn’t happen that often.

    Another approach I have is to play battles from easy to hard in any one session. This way, I can feel I’ve achieved what I hoped and, when my army becomes too depleted/buggered by crits (LOL - auto correct made an interesting correction to crits there, rearranging last 2 letters and adding an ‘h’!), I take that as my cue to take a break.
     
  4. Loraykin

    Loraykin Active Member

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    To each his own. I don't enjoy random influences, and I think random events that wipe your whole stack when your opponent has been reduced to measly numbers is neither realistic nor contributing to a fun gameplay. But then I like to plan and use strategy as much as possible (e.g. love chess), so my view might also not be representative.
     
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  5. Anton Amby

    Anton Amby Well-Known Member

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    I am one of the other players that really dislike crit (I'm probably one of the forum members that have been complaining about it for the longest time to be honest), today I barely play PvP due to this (I only really play strongholds since there's no crit in there which makes for more strategic and fun play imo and playing PvP isn't fun for me at all)
    The thing that makes me the most sad is how much lost potential crit is wasting - imagine all of the cool effects you could make for weapons instead of just having ''x percent of the time you oneshot a regiment'' in the game... :confused:
    It would be less annoying to me if it was well-designed RNG, but it's terribly designed too. o_Oo_O
     
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  6. Aleatory

    Aleatory Member

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    I have mentioned crit before and I totally agree that it removes a lot of strategy and fun. At lower ranks I never really saw it as a huge problem, but as soon as you start facing WL23 weapons with their massive crit damage the frustration level goes through the roof. Having a DG with 6 units left annihilate a full unit is ridiculous.

    The cynic in me says it is purely to create artificial difficulty through use of RNG and thus force people to use diamonds and watch ads to generate more money. However I prefer to not try and be so cynical and put it down to simple bad design or foresight on behalf of the original creators.
     
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  7. BlueRuby

    BlueRuby Active Member

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    I love chess too, and get what you’re saying, Loraykin.
    And I love my history and know there have been many upsets, where battles have gone to the massively underestimated underdog:
    Rorke’s drift, Agincourt, Stalingrad for example.
    It doesn’t do to underestimate one’s enemy, and it feels right to see it here. Steps can be taken here to mitigate the reversals and loss.

    I do also agree, though, perhaps the crits could be scaled somewhat to reflect regiment strength?
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2018
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  8. Aleatory

    Aleatory Member

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    I think scaling crit would be the best option, but a quick way also occurred to me to curtail it a little bit, don't apply the multiplier to the weapon damage when it crits. The 10% weapons already have ridiculous damage bonus, and doubling that is a bit over the top. Have it as a flat bonus while still too high (imo) would definitely reduce the problem somewhat. Perhaps that is a good middle ground solution.
     
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  9. Aleatory

    Aleatory Member

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    Hate to beat a dead horse here but the frustration was getting to me today. Before WL23 I NEVER restarted a mission, good or bad I took the results as usually it was well within my control. However the RNG factor is ridiculous at WL23.

    Example 1: fighting against a team with 2 guardians. No matter how good you are at kiting them and staying away they have so many HP that it takes time to kill them and they will have the opportunity to hit your units at least a couple of times. I literally lost a unit from full to zero four attempts (same fight) in a row with a guardian being at low health and the last unit alive. It's last hit crit every time and took down a full health unit before I could finish it.

    Just now I had the enemy team down to an archer with 10 life and a guardian. The archer hits a unit and crits for 600k taking it down to 12 life, I run it away and stick it next to my MF and tree to heal, and the next round the guardian (with less than 100 life left) crits and annihilates a whole unit. I finish the map and have to use one of my ads for life.

    How is this fun? How is this strategy? It is beyond frustrating.
     
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  10. Mark Engle

    Mark Engle Well-Known Member

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  11. BlackAdder666

    BlackAdder666 Well-Known Member

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    Crit is not da shizzle, as we all know. The only way to control enemies is with RoF, and sniping them from far away, hoping to kill 'em all before they get a crit. Now the Roc comes along. I love the Roc and its ability. But in a while, when everyone has maxxed out the Roc, the scourge of crits will be even worse.On many maps enemies will reach you in first turn. So RoF, hide at edge of map, enemy Roc removes RoF, and voila 2 of your full health regs are crit to death. Restarts, timers and foul curses will be plentiful. Of course you can trigger Roc and then use RoF and evolve other new strategies, which is fun. But enemy crits, will soon play a much bigger part :(
     
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  12. Anton Amby

    Anton Amby Well-Known Member

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    The answer to both of those questions is: It's not.
    It's not fun and it's just a coin-flip that makes the game less strategic. It literally adds nothing to the game.
     
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  13. Anton Amby

    Anton Amby Well-Known Member

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    I personally stopped actively playing PvP around a month after I put the Tier list for 0.48 up which is multiple months ago now...
    I only do a couple of them every now and then so I don't run out of War Coins, but as soon as 1 or 2 crits happen on either side of the map I just quit the app and go do something else. (I'm basically only playing the game for the Strongholds, otherwise I would have quit by now) :(
    I wrote a pretty long post in the 0.57 update thread about why this kind of RNG is unfun and bad for the game, since they introduced IR's passive which is the exact same kind of RNG as crit... (https://forum.warlordsofaternum.com...n-0-57-xatakan-empire.11540/page-6#post-20838 point 3 under negative things)
    Crit also pretty much makes it so you can't ever add a competitive multiplayer gamemode to WoA since most matches would be decided by which player gets more lucky with their coin-flips.
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2018
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  14. Mark Engle

    Mark Engle Well-Known Member

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    Yes, most PvP fights are about:

    1. Avoiding criticals

    2. Landing criticals

    Good players develop strats around those two tenants.

    That's called strategy, gents. And like it or not, it mimics real life fights where luck is as equally important as skill.

    @BlackAdder666 already alluded to one tactic: using range units to get more strikes than your enemy. I'm not going to share any of my 'tricks' at this time, but this is the game. If you want to compete in high level game play, you've got to adapt to the metagame.

    FWIW, the majority of critical strikes on either side are inconsequential, as a normal strike would've killed the regiment anyways. It's the potential crits that matter....that one has to learn to plan for. See #1 and #2.

     
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  15. Rockemsockemrobots

    Rockemsockemrobots New Member

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    I agree. It's all part of the game. You have to adapt and use it to your benefit. Otherwise, your man card will be revoked and you will continue to be frustrated.
     
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  16. Anton Amby

    Anton Amby Well-Known Member

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    No it's not, it's called a coin-flip.
    The day I decided to stop playing PvP was when I were playing a match and the AI got 3 crits in a row killing 3 of my regiments instantly - I then restarted and used the exact same strategy on the same map and ended the match with no regiments lost and less than 2 min of recovery on my damaged ones. I then thought to myself - What is the point? o_O

    No it doesn't. In a real life scenario a army that has been completely massacred and only has 5 soldiers left won't suddenly turn around a kill over 400 soldiers - No matter how skilled they are with whatever weapon they're using. :confused::confused:

    Yea, this has been the tactic for the majority of players pretty much since the game was launched... Which was why everyone were using Mages and Archers... But is that really healthy? Having to build your army around hitting your enemy with critical strikes and staying away from them for as long as possible so your own don't get killed by a random effect? Because I don't think it is.
    I don't have anything against random effects when they're well done, but when they're just a coin-flip to deal somewhere between double and tripple the dmg - then the game starts not being fun to me anymore.
    Crit was also one of the reasons why I decided to make the thread about improving itemization in the game yesterday. (other than the items generally just being kind of boring ofc) :p
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2018
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  17. Aleatory

    Aleatory Member

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    Sorry but I think you are completely missing the point here and not actually reading the examples given, a normal strike absolutely would NOT kill the unit in 100% of cases that are being discussed.

    The 2 examples I initially gave show that it's an issue losing a full unit to an enemy with only a few men left in it after avoiding damage for several turns. Your statement of strategy only would hold merit if you could avoid ALL incoming damage, which is simply impossible given the combination of maps and variation of opponent units. You must occasionally be hit by the enemy units.

    Your holier than thou response of "learn strategy" appears to be simple trolling. I am not seeing your name in the top 100 for this season or over time, are you at WL23? Your statements makes it sound like no, as before fighting at 23 I would probably have agreed with your assessment, crit at lower levels really wasn't such a concern.
     
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  18. Mark Engle

    Mark Engle Well-Known Member

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    Finished 4th last season. 2nd before that. Usually in top 10.

    I know what I'm talking about.

    Still waiting for you to join our alliance and play with the big dawgs.;)
     
  19. Aleatory

    Aleatory Member

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    Hah, you use a different forum name? Here I was thinking they were linked to your player name!
     
  20. Anton Amby

    Anton Amby Well-Known Member

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    Mark Engle is one of the big Warlords that compete in PvP, he does know what he's talking about - But I still conpletely disagree with crit adding anything healthy to the game. :p
     
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