New idea Endless dungeon

RealBizkit666

Active Member
What I think the game needs is a challenge without rewards and only a ladder. I am thinking about an endless dungeon. Not like the strongholds, but a really endless dungeon. After you killed the first wave of enemies a new wave (a bit stronger then the previous one) will happen and you have to play with the army you started (and with damage they taken). And so on.

Also, the challenge has to be exactly the same for everyone no matter what level. And you can retry as often as you want to get as far as possible, and how further you get, the higher you end up on the ladder. But you always start at wave 1. This challenge can cover any period of time, like a day or a week. After that period, a new challenge is started with different scenery and enemies then in the previous challenge.

Some extra features:
- Disable critical hits to avoid some randomness. Except when regiments use devious strike.
- Reset 2nd ability after 10 waves or something.
- A "boss" every 10th wave.
- Change scenery after 10 waves.
- As long as you aren't defeated, save the state so you can continue where you left so you can put the game away without having to start over again.

I think this will encourage the need for good tactics and not reckless playing and also something maxed out players can play continuously to see how high they can get on the ladder (and use different strategies and army combo's to see how far they can get). And if there has to be some sort of rewards system, I would suggest paying out in diamonds like 1 diamond for every 5 waves completed by the end of the challenge period. These rewards might be needed so low level and mid level players might find it appealing to play it also since they will never make it to the top of the ladder and it makes no sense for them to play.

Maybe this improves also the alliance a little bit, since players can share there thoughts in chat in how you can advanced the furthest in a certain dungeon. What tactics are the best, what army combo's is most suited. Something like that.
 

Arci

Community Manager
Staff member
Hey, thanks for sharing with the community your idea!

When Strongholds were implemented, we exactly wanted to give shape to a suggestion shared on this forum a while ago to provide an endless input of battles with increasing challenge factor.
Rather than building an entirely new concept for pretty much the same purpose, we could indeed use this thread to share possible improvements to our existing Stronghold system.

Many of your suggestions look valid, but please let me highlight some possible problems that may arise.

Challenge factor -> The only way to keep it the exact same for everyone is that every player will have at their commands the exact same 5 regiments, meaning they're not gonna use their own regiments. Positive aspects? Negative ones?

Regiments not healed -> Other than highly experienced warlords, I doubt it could be possible to win more than 3-4 battles in a row without fully healing your regiments. This would make the challenge rather frustrating for many warlords as they couldn't get past a few battles.

Disabled critical hits -> Uhm... let me say that "soon" this won't be necessary anymore :D

Loot -> As we're talking about not playing with the player's regiment, what kind of loot could be more valuable?


Let's keep the discussion going :)
 

RealBizkit666

Active Member
Hey, thanks for sharing with the community your idea!

When Strongholds were implemented, we exactly wanted to give shape to a suggestion shared on this forum a while ago to provide an endless input of battles with increasing challenge factor.
Rather than building an entirely new concept for pretty much the same purpose, we could indeed use this thread to share possible improvements to our existing Stronghold system.
Thanks for the fast reply, didn't expect it so fast. :)
Many of your suggestions look valid, but please let me highlight some possible problems that may arise.

Challenge factor -> The only way to keep it the exact same for everyone is that every player will have at their commands the exact same 5 regiments, meaning they're not gonna use their own regiments. Positive aspects? Negative ones?
Interesting. Positive is indeed every has the exact same chance. However, I dislike the idea that I get to fight with an army that I didn't level myself. And surely, I think you must put some time in to advancing your own army to become more successful for these challenges. However, in the current stronghold, the stronger your army get AP wise, the worser progression is.

So my personal opinion is that using your own army (no matter how strong or weak), gives the most satisfaction when reaching a specific wave. If I make take Diablo 3 as an example, there is always a challenge where you must take some character with random gear and random skill to clear a dungeon. I never played them because most of the time that characters doesn't suite my play style. I want to play with the character that I self develops and suits my play style. The same I think should be true for this challenge. Of course, some armies will be better than other, but still being able to play with your own style gives the best feeling. And to be honest, I love playing Diablo 3 for hours without finding any valuable loot at all. It's all about the ladder for me and reaching personal best on them.
Regiments not healed -> Other than highly experienced warlords, I doubt it could be possible to win more than 3-4 battles in a row without fully healing your regiments. This would make the challenge rather frustrating for many warlords as they couldn't get past a few battles.
To be honest, that depends on how fast you let the enemies grow in strength. If I would take the current PvP 199T for example, I could easily play a lot of them without losing regiments if critical wasn't an issue. And even for this moment, with good tactics and knowing how the AI works I sometimes can do 3 199T PvP battles without losing a unit and even being possible to fully heal my army (but for convenience I let them only heal over half usually to only get short timers). So yes, it should be more towards experienced warlords and for the unexperienced, it's a nice challenge to learn the tactics. And yes, that can be frustrating some times. But I think that should be part of a game. It shouldn't always be a cakewalk, but it also shouldn't be impossible. It's is such a nice feeling when you can progress just a little further after upgrading your army when you aren't maxed out. So I think this can be both satisfying for (almost) maxed out players as for low/mid level players. Yes, the first level will be a cakewalk for maxed out players, but it's great to have a feeling of being overpowered as top warlord for the first levels.

And if it's really problematic, then maybe some sort of revive. So you can revive regiments two times (or so) during a play through. Just to be a bit more flexible and errors in tactics aren't punished way to hard at once.
Disabled critical hits -> Uhm... let me say that "soon" this won't be necessary anymore :D
Oh well, then that point isn't valid anymore. Although I still like the current crit mechanics most of the times. If you do your math and tactics correct, even crits aren't a problem. However, for this challenge I want to have less randomness than current PvP and PvE battles.
Loot -> As we're talking about not playing with the player's regiment, what kind of loot could be more valuable?
If indeed you take not your own army, then I still take diamonds are the only really valuable rewards. But not an overflow of them, they must still feel special. But just an extra opportunity to get some since BI doesn't give them anymore. Maybe like 5 max a day, but that is debatable. I would really prefer gameplay and ladder above (loot)rewards. Since (almost) maxed players don't care about rewards, they care mostly about something to play without getting bored. And also not a pay to win (I know this isn't the philosophy for any software maker, but I think it keeps players in the game and maybe willing to spend their money to support a good game they can play for a long time without getting bored).
Let's keep the discussion going :)
Yes, let's do that.
 

Benji

Member
Challenge: I would like to use my own units, no fun being given standard units that you cannot tweak to your tactics.
Make it like BI but with more variety of units. And no limit of levels. Start from most recent won level when entering next day.
Reset every week? 2 weeks? Depends on how rapidly difficulty increases.
With an all-time table so you can see record of highest level.

Healing: maybe the units could heal every 2nd, 3rd or 4th battle? That way you would keep some rotation in army and not use your favourites all the time.

Loot: right now you dont really need anything as an end-game Warlord. The only thing of real value would be new stuff only accesible by wins here. New weapons maybe?
 

Noob

Active Member
Maybe I'm more conservative, but I dont like this idea...

1: What a sence of this idea and challenge, if many players cant pass stronghold level 15 or highter? Endless levels make no sence because nobody can reach level 99 on stronghold...
2: Remove crit make no sence because orks havent crit damage (except active ability by frost pike). On high level you will meet hordes and you will wish extra damage...

Or probably your plan is remove crit and orks will not increase exponentiel but linear?
3: Make healing limited is bad idea, because levels will more harder and healing is a part of strategy. Which strategy need to use for 1% aganst 100% HP?
4: Bosses wave like fractions? It can be interesting, but not with 1 soldier with many health point and damage...

@RealBizkit666 is stronghold not challenge for you?

I think, there no need extra stronghold. Need fix current stronghold:

1. Fix factor formula like PvP (T5AP). Top players cant play stronghold over 10-15 levels because formula add 40 units 5* into factor. Low players have 40 units but different stars + most units arent upgraded. They get easy factor.
2. You can add unlimited level, but think about cheaters... also 99 levels is ok.
3. I dissapointed that on max level no reward. It would cool if there anything surprise.. example on frost blood stronghold level 99 is a gozura gun with 10% and 190.000 damage (like LA archer bow). On domenisticar level 50 random lightening mystic waepon.
4. Domenisticar stronghold is hardest because a lot archers and mages. They have unfair ability and can kill all units with one shot. Fix that there apear only 1 archer, 1 archer and 1 mages, 1 mages (like frostblood stronghold). They should appear rare.
5. Add stronghold ranking. You can watch which player cheats (example domenisticar level 99).
6. Players need have choice if they want reset their stronghold (need time for record) or make forced auto reset after 3 days. Free reset available after 24h
 
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RealBizkit666

Active Member
1: I think I explained why I think it makes sense. Instead of 1 battle at a time with a different army each time, you pick your army at the beginning of the streak and try to get as far as you can. Different army combo's can get different result.
2: Removig crit is for the warlord's army. It adds too much randomness and true skills can't be compared with that. And the hordes are only that high beacause of crit. So if you remove that, the hords don't need to be that high of numbers.
3: I don't agree with that. If your units are damaged, they must find a way to heal. This can be done in various ways, healing potions for example. There are enough dungeon crawlers which have such mechanics (Diablo III for example).
4: Well, that's the idea of a boss. It can be tweaked of course. But again, in dungeon crawlers the boss is mostly a single unit which can damage units really hard.

Do I like the strongholds? No, not really. My MF on a tower for example get 1-shotted by an archer in FBS on level 1. So they are completely unbalanced at the moment. And for a maxed out player, it doesn't make any sense to play them at all. And my army in configured for max AP, so from level 7 onwards battles become more a kind of lucky CS to avoid being oneshotted. I can't come even close to my record on both strongholds now.

And with the current stronghold, each player gets different enemies, so comparing how high you got on the ladder is completely useless in my opinion. If you get 20 easy armies for example you get further. So a ladder only makes sense if the enemy is sowehow comparable. :)
 

Shab

Member
In current format, if you raise your army power in any way, you are punished in strongholds. This future is only fun for lvl 13-17 ppl, once you hit lvl 18, the battle difficulty increase rapidly! ironically my FBS record is 35, when I was WL 13. The more my army power grow, and the less the progress in strongholds!