Fix Crit

[Saedorn]

Critical strike in PvP ruins this game for those that are at or near end-game. The developers are clearly aware of the problem and chose to focus on updates that hold our attention for a week. In the meantime, there is a glaring problem that is largely being ignored. Not by the players - I hear multiple complaints about the problem - but rather by the game designers. It's such an issue that it makes me wonder if the programmers in charge of the game actually have the expertise to fix it.

The current system dictates that any unit, with any amount of health, can 1-shot any other unit at any time in PvP.

FIX CRIT IN PVP

A close-app function is, at its core, a cheat. It is a workaround to deal with a design flaw. Let's be honest: if I can restart a fight with no consequence until it falls in my favor it makes the game a time crunch, not a challenge. And EVERYONE does it. But do you think anyone is happy about doing that? If you're restarting a game, it's typically because you just got decimated by crits in the first round of a PvP fight. So you're attitude is already sour. More than one person has nearly broken their phone or tablet out of frustration. The current system ENCOURAGES this behavior. Yes, the current system encourages players to cheat.

FIX CRIT IN PVP

Critical strike REMOVES any strategy from the game. Even if you think you're using strategy to deal with PvP, you're not. It can't be avoided. There have been multiple occasions where I can use a sound strategy to receive only one hit in a PvP fight (on friendly maps) and guess what that hit was? A crit that 1-shots a regiment. I have a demanding job, and to get my 5 PvP battles in during the day is challenging. Having regiments on cooldown because of an unavoidable mechanic would make it near impossible. Allow us to use strategy again. Allow us to develop a battle where we control the fight, adjust to unexpected attacks, pull back to heal, etc. None of that is currently possible.

FIX CRIT IN PVP

PvP battles are currently a 'zergfest'. You charge in and kill as fast as you can, as every unit has a chance to completely destroy you at any time. You can't leave a unit alive with 1 regiment - he can still kill you even if you're at full health. You can't heal up damaged regiments - one shot can kill the regiment you want to heal. You simply must kill them faster than they kill you. And as stated above, you just restart he game until you do so.

FIX CRIT IN PVP

A classic move in any battle is kiting. The same is true for healing. Kiting is not possible, and even a delay with RoF is dangerous as any unit in range can completely take you out. This is what is called a strategy - to weaken your enemy before they can get close to you. It is not possible in WoA as the weakened enemy can devastate your army.

FIX CRIT IN PVP

There will NEVER be actual PvP in this game with the crit structure as it currently stands. There is no metric to determine who is better. It would simply be 'he who crits, wins', which is to say - 'he who is lucky, wins'. Guild battles and individual PvP would be great expansion ideas that hold no value in the current system. Coop battles against a world boss are not possible if they can crit and wipe out the army. This system limits expansion ideas.

FIX CRIT IN PVP

There are a lot of regiments to battle with in WoA, and end game players love to tweak their armies and try new things. But at the end of the day, armies are homogenized into ranged favored armies because any melee has a 25% chance to be completely destroyed at any moment. If a melee takes 2-3 hits in a round, it's nearly a guarantee that they are out. There are many regiments 'left on the table' because they are not advantageous in the crit system as it currently stands.

FIX CRIT IN PVP

Crit devalues 'The One' on the leaderboards. There's not much value as it is, as the only way to win is diamonds, not skill. I'm OK with pay to win, but I personally will never spend a dime on this game until this horrible design flaw is fixed. But you still must restart all fights until the crits fall in your favor or you will never finish your battles.

FIX CRIT IN PVP

The crit system homogenizes the gear setup as well. If you're not using 10% weapons and 15% banners, you're not optimized to take advantage of crits. That leaves NO freedom to develop a unique army that will challenge a player that faces them. Imagine if there were banners that reduced crit damage, weapons that silenced casters, hits that caused enemies to flee for a round. If you faced THAT army, you would have to really THINK about what you're doing an how to approach it. This is in stark contrast to the 'zergfest' described above.

FIX CRIT IN PVP

A few more things to mention - if you are not a level 23 warlord, enjoy the game but refrain from commenting. You haven't faced this yet, and prior to endgame crit isn't a problem

Crit is not a problem in PvE. This leads me to believe that it is intentional in PvP. Why? There is no value other than forcing player to spend diamonds to recover th...wait, I think I just answered my question.

There is a subjective imbalance between player and AI crit. I haven't tested this, nor will I. I don't have the time. But it certainly seems like the AI is getting off 2X more crits than I do.

Having your gear forged to take full advantage of crit is NOT a reason to avoid fixing it. That's like saying you're not removing the tumor on your neck because you bought two dozen turtleneck sweaters.

HOW TO FIX IT

I would imagine people have lots of ideas, especially since it is nearly universally despised by players. I never hear someone say "I like the crit system", only 'that's the way it is' or 'my gear is already optimized for it'. There's the occasional L2P troll, but trolls are everywhere. So feel free to add your ideas to the thread

Changing PvP crit to the PvE system would fix all. Toning crit down to represent the damaged enemy fixes it (i.e., a unit with 1 health can crit, but the crit is 99% reduced). Adding extra banners, weapons and armors that mitigate the effect or add new/special effects fixes it. Let's face it, the Bard story was horrible/worthless depending on your view. The resources should be diverted into keeping current players, as newer players have tons of activities to keep them occupied. It is much better in any business to retain loyal customers than to recruit new customers to replace them. Just this week another OG Warlord quit, and I can't blame him. There's nothing to keep players around unless they want to drop a ton of money on diamonds to be The One for a week.

I'm vocal about this because it would be SO EASY to fix. And my army is nearing completion. Once my regiments are fully sharded I will never PvP again since I will not need war coins. That's too bad, because I'd really like to break into the millionaire trophy club. But its not worth it. So please developers - if you're thinking the Bard Story 2 is a great expansion idea, poll the player base. End game players are getting bored.

 

[Jin]

@Saedorn. You've a very legitimate reason for crying foul. I've the pain of getting CS at the most inconvenient moments.

Here's another way of looking at CS.

PvP match up is based on T5AP so to get maximum TC, 25%CC Mythical set plus appropriate Mythical Armour are needed. It happens that those are the ones that gives you 'one-shot CS' capability.

In the early days of the current PvP system there's a bug that prevent high AP warlords from dominating. 30%CC Mythical set with Full Physical Mythical Armour are the way to go. There are hardly any 'complains' about CS then.

By reducing CS capability, does it affect the T5AP match up and thus TC? The current PvP system is based on the old PvP system, I'm no programmer but it may not be possible to modify this PvP system until a whole new one is put in place.

The 'easiest' option may be to reduce the % of AI CS but then endgame warlords will need 5v6, 5v7 and 5v8 PvP to show case their tactical prowess. Let's face it, 5v5 at endgame is not very exciting except on a couple of maps. No GG in top 8 makes that even worse. My 2nd account tough PvP mostly got strong GG in AI line up.

All features of WoA are tie in to one another, changing one aspect of a feature will probably affect all other features as we've found out over the course of all updates.

 

[Jin]

Very glad to see the original Rebel Warlord ___ (aka III) still hanging around.

 

[Omni]

Simple solution for crit- warlord lvl up or another 6 star for regs, anyway with full physical armor even archer can’t 1 hit mage in pvp, so it’s up to ppl what armor they are gonna to use

 

[Saedorn]

@____
I was truly hoping to avoid trolls and keep this thread constructive. I appreciate your resume, but it wasn't solicited. I have been playing WoA for nearly two years. All of my regiments are level 23 and my top 16 are fully forged with mythical gear. My top 5 is nearly full AP (I will forge my last Prophets later, I'm working on replacing my archer armor atm). I am currently 75th all time in trophies and 65th in top AP. I have not purchased any in-game bonuses, and leveled all of my warlords organically. Is this too fast for you? Your ability to judge my decisions without even knowing what they were clearly demonstrates your prowess at trolling. Back to your cave, little man.

@Jin
Thanks for the thoughtful response. I laid out my opinion and have heard the complaints of others. Knowing I'm not alone and knowing how frustrated this game mechanic makes me, I felt obligated to post again (my last post about this was a year ago). Yours is one of the reasons I hear the old timers bring up (yes - you are old :O) However, 'it's too hard' is not a compelling reason to allow a flawed mechanic to stand, imo. I know changing one thing affects others, but this is the reality in most games that chose to survive long term. If most mmorpg's didn't produce expansions and 'reset' the gear and playing field, they wouldn't still be around today. People would get bored. I see the same thing happening with the warlords that have no other reason to play anymore, which is why I mentioned that the focus should be on end-game content and not the leveling process. Any game that lasts will bring end-game content to the table, realizing that this will entice lower level players to reach that status while preventing an exodus of maxed out characters.

But we can all take the pain for a long term improvement. I don't want to go to the gym today, but I will. I know that the short term pain will lead to a long term improvement in my quality of life. When scrolls were taken away there was a mass outcry. But everybody lived and I don't think it prompted anyone to leave.

Maybe a poll is in order - if the community thinks that the crit in PvP is acceptable I won't bring it up again. I posted this thread again because of the messages I read and receive bemoaning the mechanic and how it interrupts quality game play. There ARE solutions, and backing away because it seems difficult or scary is what leads to mediocrity.

I will continue to level my army, but if nothing has changed then I too will leave once it's complete (my OCD prevents me from quitting before its completion). I enjoy supporting games I like, and being a multi-millionaire allows my to be generous with developers (which I enjoy - they deserve recognition for their hard work). This is the only game I haven't supported yet, only due to this mechanic. It makes the game frustrating versus enjoyable, and if I wasn't OCD I would have left already. I am interested to know, however, if you actually ENJOY the crit in PvP. I heard you say it would be a challenge to change, but I didn't hear you say 'leave it alone, I like it'. If you do like it, I'd like to know why. Again - I'm not lobbying to change minds, but to bring what I see as a glaring problem to the attention of the developers.

@Omni
I agree with you. Everything you mentioned would be targeted at keeping end-game warlords. That is a good thing, as they currently have no incentive to stay.

 

[Jin]

@Saedorn.

Officially, I don't like CS but I can understand why it's there. My strategies and tactics in PvP takes CS into account as I've been able to predict pretty well when my regiment is gonna get CS. If by chance that didn't happen then I get to field that regiment in the next battle. It's more of I've learned to battle with CS until a better system comes along.

 

[Noob]

Best way is increase WL level to 25. I want have CS for stronghold. Alternate add new item like ring, which make CS lower

 

[Arcturus]

The worst problem with Crits in this game isn't specific to Mythical gear or high WL levels. The problem with Crits in PvP is simply that the computers are arbitrarily given a critical hit advantage. They get more crits and they get higher damage levels from the them. It isn't even sublte; it's just blatantly obvious! Best way to fix critical hits in this game is get rid of them altogether or significanty lower the damage values of crits. There is really NO NEED for them in the first place. The random damage value range on normal hits is plenty to add uncertainty on it's own. Doing hard-restarts again and again does really get old and the current critical hit system adds NOTHING to the game except for frustration and time-wasting.

I like so much about this game, but critical hits are the one fundamental glaring weak spot of the game IMHO.

 

[NoName]

Best way is increase WL level to 25.....

This is something that would benefit extended gameplay, and get us closer to a medium resolve of the crits.

We are getting more and more XP potions from farming the Factions, adding two more levels to each Reg could be a developing nightmare, however, if nothing but Soldier & Hit Point upgrade cards were added to the 24th & 25th levels. This would really make a big change, increasing the survivability of Regs, sure the 1 Soldier Reg could still crit to the max, but the complete one shot would no longer exist, and then we would see more 45 minute to 90 minute cool down in lieu of the three hour, assuming we could protect our injured ally.

Longer Battles, higher survivability, and returning the intended use of class bonus which is diminished at end game.

 

[Ushurak@adventures]

I think crit is a Workaround to compensate the KI.

Things not be taken to account by ki.

- Concentrated attack on most dangerous unit.
- Eliminate a unit which i do to not get a crit. Less unit can less attack
- If a unit push my unit into reach of another unit yet moved this unit does not attack.
- hunting not dangerous gobblins
-always in attack mode, but i mostly have the first real one.
- going always on the lowest unit
- blessed fearies are somewhere running like wild.
- sacrify a unit not surviving to win the war

....

A lot of examples

 

[Hackuuna]

There is really NO NEED for them in the first place. The random damage value range on normal hits is plenty to add uncertainty on it's own.

I completely agree! At this point the only purpose of crits is to send our regiments on recovery.

 

[Hackuuna]

I think crit is a Workaround to compensate the KI.

Things not be taken to account by ki.

- Concentrated attack on most dangerous unit.
- Eliminate a unit which i do to not get a crit. Less unit can less attack
- If a unit push my unit into reach of another unit yet moved this unit does not attack.
- hunting not dangerous gobblins
-always in attack mode, but i mostly have the first real one.
- going always on the lowest unit
- blessed fearies are somewhere running like wild.
- sacrify a unit not surviving to win the war

....

A lot of examples

Basically this is the priority the AI is the following:

1. Perform an ability if that ability meets certain criteria (for example RoF if there are at least 2 enemies to catch in a RoF) and also maximize the potential of that ability
2. Attack a regiment that it will kill
3. Attack a regiment that it will do the most damage to
4. If nothing in range, move to the closest forest/healing or move to the point where in the next turn it can attack.

I've also strongly suspected for a long time that the AI has a boosted chance to crit if your side has scored lots more damage than it has.

 

[AngelRipper]

Totally agree. On my of recent PVP fights - I managed to kill 2 with 5 hits - zero crits. AI in return had 2 crits out of 3 hits, kills 2 of my own. I always felt, the AI in PVP has a better chance to crit, although I never did any study to confirm that.

 

[AngelRipper]

So I have to ask. Ever since the ads stopped working altogether couple of days ago, I get the feeling, the AI crits during the PVP occure less often. Anyone else noticed that?

 

[Saedorn]

I still have ads, and I still have crits, and I still restart battles 3-20 times.

I also agree that AI seems to have a significantly higher crit percentage, although I have also not tested it.