Mythical Armor Stats

Mark Engle

Well-Known Member
Kind of funny. The pure DEF armors, while probably the best choice for game-play, have the lowest effect on AP.
 

Hackuuna

Well-Known Member
Did I miss a post somewhere explaining the defense multiplier used here? It's slightly different than the one posted by Anec so I'm guessing it's derived in some other way?
 

NoName

Well-Known Member
Did I miss a post somewhere explaining the defense multiplier used here? It's slightly different than the one posted by Anec so I'm guessing it's derived in some other way?
You didn't miss anything, you could post what Anec's formula in here as well. And, I could run that one for a comparison. Honestly, I don't care much about those numbers, because the I'm much more interested in just the game-play. There are Warlords who have among the best top 5 AP; therefore, they spawn very good opponents, and I doubt they play their listed top 5 that much. They just put them there to annoy you in PVP.
 

Primer

Well-Known Member
NoName is right. I rarely use my top5 listed units to fight battles. They are just there to maximize AP and trophy count spawned.

My fighting units are lower down the list and typically have better defensive Armor.
 

Hackuuna

Well-Known Member
The next logical question then becomes whether the difference in AP between the armors (or weapons and banners) results in a significant difference in quality of opposition. Of course one can argue that a non-zero difference is significant when the entire competition is just based on probability but it makes me question how the rolling has been calculated.

Perhaps players are grouped into windows where those windows all have the same probability of rolling a fight and whether that fight is 3S or 4S will depend on where they sit in that window.
 

Victorash

Active Member
Hi Victor,

Your data is in line with my observations.

I believe it was Gottspieler who had previously posted that the armor that made your unit most balanced would result in highest AP gain. Basically a 100/200 mage would best wear a 200/100 Armor. While this is true in a mathematical form, it does turn out their is another significant factor which makes it not true in practice.

Not all Armor totals are the same. A “better” statement would be that the armor which makes your Regiment stats most balanced is the best for AP EXCEPT when another armor has a significantly higher overall value. I won’t even attempt to quantify significantly yet.

Example is Guardians. I don’t have Level 13 Nightwatch yet, but everyone who contributed to the data has confirmed Nightwatch gives the best AP boost at level 13. I do have the Level 1 stats and it seems to confirm.

Now let’s compare. Iron Will has a higher total value 1790+432 for 2222 total than Nightwatch 2162, but this is not a significant difference and since Nightwatch is better balanced it gives more AP boost.

Renewed Faith actually results in even more balanced overall stats for the unit, but it’s total value is only 1193+649 for 1842. This is a significant difference from 2162, so Nightwatch still has a better AP boost than Renewed Faith.

Consistent with your conclusions - it is not one determining factor but rather a combination. I am sure someone could figure out the actual math with the formulas but I don’t plan on taking the time to do so.
In the end I think it’s easier to consider that defense multiplier formula. It seems that it’s the only one that that indicates the higest AP. Higest def multiplier = higest AP
 

Victorash

Active Member
The next logical question then becomes whether the difference in AP between the armors (or weapons and banners) results in a significant difference in quality of opposition. Of course one can argue that a non-zero difference is significant when the entire competition is just based on probability but it makes me question how the rolling has been calculated.

Perhaps players are grouped into windows where those windows all have the same probability of rolling a fight and whether that fight is 3S or 4S will depend on where they sit in that window.
For me the differnce of AP makes the difference - it raised my T5AP enough to be able to hope for top 100 this season.

Regarding re-rolls you might like my post here regarding patters in PvP - https://forum.warlordsofaternum.com/index.php?threads/patterns-is-pvp-spawning-and-re-rolls.8488/
It still needs some updates, but there are still some interesting ideas there
 

Hackuuna

Well-Known Member
For me the differnce of AP makes the difference - it raised my T5AP enough to be able to hope for top 100 this season.

Regarding re-rolls you might like my post here regarding patters in PvP - https://forum.warlordsofaternum.com/index.php?threads/patterns-is-pvp-spawning-and-re-rolls.8488/
It still needs some updates, but there are still some interesting ideas there
Having traveled the full journey like me I'm sure you've made the same observation that I have: patterns of rolling 1S, 2S, 3S, or 4S changes depending on what AP you have. For example:

At low level where battles are worth less than 80T you will almost never roll a 4S, maybe once in an entire season. Between 80T and 140T you might roll a 4S 2 or 3 times per season. At around 160T you might roll a 4S 4 times per season. At 180T or more I've been rolling 4S maybe once per day to every other day. 2S and 3S also followed a gradually increasing probability pattern as AP increased.

This indicates to me that the formula places a bias towards certain difficulty fights depending on your AP. If it didn't then lowbies like @Jin on his second journey should be rolling 3S fights but I'm betting he never does since that's what I experienced as a lowbie. So the question is, do the probabilities keep increasing or are there thresholds?

The fact that there used to be a bug for people with too high of AP makes me think there are thresholds.
 

Primer

Well-Known Member
Having traveled the full journey like me I'm sure you've made the same observation that I have: patterns of rolling 1S, 2S, 3S, or 4S changes depending on what AP you have. For example:

At low level where battles are worth less than 80T you will almost never roll a 4S, maybe once in an entire season. Between 80T and 140T you might roll a 4S 2 or 3 times per season. At around 160T you might roll a 4S 4 times per season. At 180T or more I've been rolling 4S maybe once per day to every other day. 2S and 3S also followed a gradually increasing probability pattern as AP increased.

This indicates to me that the formula places a bias towards certain difficulty fights depending on your AP. If it didn't then lowbies like @Jin on his second journey should be rolling 3S fights but I'm betting he never does since that's what I experienced as a lowbie. So the question is, do the probabilities keep increasing or are there thresholds?

The fact that there used to be a bug for people with too high of AP makes me think there are thresholds.
There definitely used to be a bug and a pattern. It was how I was able to get mostly top level battles while”only” spending 2000 to 3000 diamonds when I was winning seasons. That bug and pattern are both gone for certain. Changed about 2 to 3 months ago. About the same time Victor posted the other thread.
 

Hackuuna

Well-Known Member
There definitely used to be a bug and a pattern. It was how I was able to get mostly top level battles while”only” spending 2000 to 3000 diamonds when I was winning seasons. That bug and pattern are both gone for certain. Changed about 2 to 3 months ago. About the same time Victor posted the other thread.
New players then will have to confirm if the PvP they are rolling is changed from how I experienced it. I guess all I'm suggesting is that if the system is still designed such that players need to cross thresholds to unlock harder fights, it's not such a leap of the imagination to think that even at high levels there may be similar thresholds that group players in a way that would equalize things within those groups. Of course this is purely guessing on my part at this point with very little evidence :)
 

Victorash

Active Member
Having traveled the full journey like me I'm sure you've made the same observation that I have: patterns of rolling 1S, 2S, 3S, or 4S changes depending on what AP you have. For example:

At low level where battles are worth less than 80T you will almost never roll a 4S, maybe once in an entire season. Between 80T and 140T you might roll a 4S 2 or 3 times per season. At around 160T you might roll a 4S 4 times per season. At 180T or more I've been rolling 4S maybe once per day to every other day. 2S and 3S also followed a gradually increasing probability pattern as AP increased.

This indicates to me that the formula places a bias towards certain difficulty fights depending on your AP. If it didn't then lowbies like @Jin on his second journey should be rolling 3S fights but I'm betting he never does since that's what I experienced as a lowbie. So the question is, do the probabilities keep increasing or are there thresholds?

The fact that there used to be a bug for people with too high of AP makes me think there are thresholds.
Actually I didn't post your observation of increasing the probability to get higher Skull Level fight as you increase your T5AP. Although now looking back it makes sense.
What I posted are patterns to increase your chance to get better spawns and better rrs. But as I said I'll update the post, as things changed since then

There definitely used to be a bug and a pattern. It was how I was able to get mostly top level battles while”only” spending 2000 to 3000 diamonds when I was winning seasons. That bug and pattern are both gone for certain. Changed about 2 to 3 months ago. About the same time Victor posted the other thread.
Yes, many things changed. But from time to time I still get what I call streaks. If I get a good window I can have all my rr as 3-4 S as sometimes I get all my rrs 1-2S.This still happens. And also still from the 2 spawns I have per day usually one of them is clearly better than the other meaning that one spawn can have in general 1-2S and 1x3S and the better one can have 1x2S 3x3S and a 4S one
 

Aleatory

Member
Just a general question about mythical armour. I am not up to 23 yet, but getting close, I think another few weeks and I will, and currently I have a pile of mythical weapons and standards but no armours.

From other threads I gather they only come from the war harbour?

Also how much are they to buy, I am debating hoarding tokens to be able to buy them when they appear. Which I am assuming won't be until I reach WL 23?
 

Primer

Well-Known Member
Mythical Armor can come from any source, but most common seems to be WH. They cost 5000 WCs. The same price as mystical weapons or banners. At level 23 it seems my WH alternates between a legendary item and a mythical item being offered. Random as far as type.

I have also gotten mystical armor from Merchant for 35000 gold.

I have also gotten it from loot wagon and random battle reward drops.
 

Spiderman

Active Member
I haven't noticed any pattern in the offerings at the WH for me. I've just had two legendaries in a row, for instance.

Merchant, LW, random battle drops, and Sky Arch (I got *one* in all the times since I started it back up again about 2 months ago) are possible but VERY rare, in my experience.
 

Victorash

Active Member
Just 2 additions:
- don’t forget the 25% discount on a mythical items brings it to 3750 WC and 26.250 gold. At the shops they come only after WL23
- At the LW you can get a mythical items of the unit’s type that took the LW
 

alpharitto

New Member
The Chat in my Alliance recently has largely been about mythical armor and which is “best”. I decided to start this thread to gather baseline info on all mythical armor available for comparison.

I will share what I have so far with a different post for the regiment type.

Format will be name Level 1 phys/mag and then Level 13 phys magic.
Notepad++ Malwarebytes FileZilla
I am missing some data. Would appreciate anyone who can help fill in the gaps. I am assuming there are five armor for each class, but only have 23 of 25 identified so far. Missing one mage and one archer.
This is tough because some stats interact differently based on base unit. To be consistent these are my assumptions.
 
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Primer

Well-Known Member
Baseline physical and magical defense is consistent among each class. For example, DG and KG have same baseline stats as GH and TPB.

Weapons and banners appear to have different effects based on special abilities, but the armor seems to be the same relative impact.
 

Loraykin

Active Member
Hi Vict
Consistent with your conclusions - it is not one determining factor but rather a combination. I am sure someone could figure out the actual math with the formulas but I don’t plan on taking the time to do so.
I think there is a high probability that the AP increase it's proportional with this Defense multiplier.
From what I tested it's clear that the pure physical/magical armors are out of the AP contest. So we remain with the other 3 and I would choose amongst the most balanced ones and the higher total defense value.
So if I were to put my money on something these would be:

for Guardian - Nightwathch Breastplate - 866/591
for Pike - Chainbreaker's Radiant Harness - 624/520
for Mounted - Chainmail of the Fury Charger - 624/520
for Archers - Tunic of the Dark Moon Stalker - 472/567
for Mages - Prophets Dressing of Harmony- 378/567 or still waiting to see what is the other non pure magic
Completely correct. I've got little new to add, just a mathematical confirmation of what's been said.

The formular is
f(p,m) = Defense Multiplier = 2/(1/(PhysicalDefenseUnit+PhysicalDefenseArmor) + 1/(MagicalDefenseUnit+MagicalDefenseArmor))

So you can't quantify an absolute impact solely of the armor on AP, because it always depends on the regiment's physical/magical defense (also it's just a factor in the AP formula, so if your other factors are higher, the absolute impact is higher).

Assuming the (untrue) constraint for armor:

PhysicalDefenseArmor + MagicalDefenseArmor = constant

the above function reduces to one unknown variable (either physical or magical defense of the armor). Differentiating to that variable, setting the resulting function to zero (to find the local maximum), and you end up with

f'(p) = 0 -->
PhysicalDefenseUnit + PhysicalDefenseArmor = MagicalDefenseUnit + MagicalDefenseUnit


In English: If the sum of physical and magical defense were constant, the best (AP) armor would in fact be the one creating the most balanced unit, where the unit's physical and magical defense are as equal as possible. But since the sum is in reality different and not following any (easy) rule, there is no general mathematical formula for the maximum, and you need to plug every armor into the defense multiplier formula above. That then coughs up the armors @Victorash put his money on, for highest AP.

The Power Index column in the below table is the result of above formula, with five star level assumed for the unit.

MythicalArmor.JPG
 
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