FEEDBACK New Item System

Arci

Community Manager
Staff member
Everybody is aware that different players received different compensation for the same items.
This actually isn't true, the same item got converted at the same rate for everyone, taking into consideration tier and level.

The only "exception" you may notice is whether the item was equipped during the migration or was in the inventory and a regiment had a lower level item of that type equipped.
Case A (equipped): The item got converted to an equivalent of the new system. Obviously for everyone with the exact same criteria. All mythical items level 13 have been converted into mythical items level 49 to give a numeric example.
Case B (inventory): The player received enough resources to upgrade the equipped item to an equivalent of case A.

The outcome is exactly the same in terms of final item obtainable, either you have let's say (Case A) a legendary weapon level 32 or (Case B) a common weapon level 3 and enough resources to upgrade it until tier legendary and level 32 (that is the same of Case A).

A valid criticism that has been moved is that having the resources instead of the fixed item allows you to in fact decide on upgrading a different item, that is true, but this does not mean that the same item has been converted for different values for different players. In terms of raw values (gold, ingots and cores) the conversion is perfectly matching.


That said, in case you are aware of a clear situation when two players got a different amount of resources for the same item, that not intended behaviour and can be considered as a bug. Please reach us out via support (you can find a quick path in the game settings) providing the IDs (or PvP names) of the two affected players so that our development team can compare what they received and take proper actions if the situation requires so.

I hope my explanation was clear enough, I'm now looking forward to receiving a support ticket from you with the aforementioned details so that our developers will be able to investigate.
 

HeraNova57

Active Member
Still expecting an answer ...

Thank you for the second compensation, it s a good start BUT you are still far far far away of getting it right.

2 facts that you still have not considered properly

#1 Max AP items

I know you have shared my comment on max AP items, but I assume you have not done something with it. As part of the previous system, we were all looking to max AP items so that we can maximized pvp fights and returns. based On the shared knowledge of my alliance WLI, I knew it was very difficult to get them. a Year from now, as soon as I was seen a max AP items I was buying it. It cost me a lot in war coins, diamonds and gold. I was close to get all perfect AP items 69/75. Now, I do not feel that this investment, strategy and approach has been recognized properly. I m sorry but for me a mythical item is not equivalent to another one. I believe max AP item should be recognized differently. They have cost us more to be obtained and should be paid more when moving to the new system. @Arci and team, please share your view and feedback on this.

#2 move of top 5

You have kill the game by moving the top 5 Reg. Guys, I have been focusing months and months to get the most efficient top 5 so that I can hit pvp top 100. Now, my previous top regs are not the right ones anymore, so it s gonna take me again months and months to upgrade efficiently the right regs. I believe I would not be able anymore to do a top 100 safely. You kill people strategy by changing the rules without explaining them and giving people a way to adapt their team. It does not impact max players, but truly all the ones that were starting to bother them on pvp top 100. You should do something to help mid player like me. Again, appreciate your feedback on this second request.

HeraNova
 

HeraNova57

Active Member
I would also like to emphasize once more that we are not done with the forge material and/or battle balancing. We will constantly improve this and we are evaluating the first stronghold reward changes, wanting to release them as soon as possible. There is also a big topic about the mix of damage types on PvE enemies which we also will adress in the future and yes, crit damage is also on the docket
thanks for the heads up, but please do not tell me that now that everyone is starting to understand the NIS, you re going to change the rules again ... people are developing strategy based on the information you are providing them, if you do change again ... the Game will become a nightmare...I m already so much disappointed with your current changes, so please stop changing the rules ... you are changing rules without providing a fair way to adapt our strategy... honestly if I m again investing shards and all my WL on the wrong reg just because you have decided to change one more time the rule, I will just quit this game. Stability is key.
 

RealBizkit666

Well-Known Member
A valid criticism that has been moved is that having the resources instead of the fixed item allows you to in fact decide on upgrading a different item, that is true, but this does not mean that the same item has been converted for different values for different players. In terms of raw values (gold, ingots and cores) the conversion is perfectly matching.
Not true. Someone who had a unused mythical weapon because he was level 22 got more materials than someone who was level 23 and had a unused mythical weapon (the level 22 player got extra gold and Lapiseth ingots which the level 23 player didn't). I only got 60.2k (I don't know how much of this came from the myth items) gold and 55 Aureum ingots, where the level 22 player would have received lot's of extra Lapiseth ingots and gold to upgrade from legendary (at least) to mythical, I didn't(!). Because of this weird desicion, the level 22 player can decide which items to level up, where the level 23 player can't do this anymore. Please stop telling that your compensation was equal because it wasn't! Just fix it.
 
Last edited:

drewdeze

Member
This actually isn't true, the same item got converted at the same rate for everyone, taking into consideration tier and level.

The only "exception" you may notice is whether the item was equipped during the migration or was in the inventory and a regiment had a lower level item of that type equipped.
Case A (equipped): The item got converted to an equivalent of the new system. Obviously for everyone with the exact same criteria. All mythical items level 13 have been converted into mythical items level 49 to give a numeric example.
Case B (inventory): The player received enough resources to upgrade the equipped item to an equivalent of case A.

The outcome is exactly the same in terms of final item obtainable, either you have let's say (Case A) a legendary weapon level 32 or (Case B) a common weapon level 3 and enough resources to upgrade it until tier legendary and level 32 (that is the same of Case A).

A valid criticism that has been moved is that having the resources instead of the fixed item allows you to in fact decide on upgrading a different item, that is true, but this does not mean that the same item has been converted for different values for different players. In terms of raw values (gold, ingots and cores) the conversion is perfectly matching.


That said, in case you are aware of a clear situation when two players got a different amount of resources for the same item, that not intended behaviour and can be considered as a bug. Please reach us out via support (you can find a quick path in the game settings) providing the IDs (or PvP names) of the two affected players so that our development team can compare what they received and take proper actions if the situation requires so.

I hope my explanation was clear enough, I'm now looking forward to receiving a support ticket from you with the aforementioned details so that our developers will be able to investigate.
This is the explanation that previously wasn't provided, at least not as clearly as you have done now, so thank you very much for setting that all out.

The discrepancy in reimbursement makes a lot more sense now. Many lower ranked players in my alliance received more than 500k gold. By the sounds of what you have said the rest of us have also received that amount, however it has been spent automatically in upgrading the equipment of our regiments.

This is better than what it seemed before however still problematic. We were advised the best thing to do was to equip all of our best equipment. There is no denying this was not just poor advice, it was actually the opposite of what we should have done.

Had we equipped all of our worst equipment we would have been given the resources ourselves and had the opportunity to choose who we upgraded based on their new stats and damage type. Even if it was the same amount of resources, the opportunity to choose how they are spent is a big deal. It would have actually been enjoyable for most players so choosing to automate it seems a bad move on multiple fronts.

The next issue is that we also would've known to sell off our excess equipment for gold which again would have resulted in much better payout.

I now remain hopeful that something is done to make up for the inaccurate and incomplete information provided before the changes were implemented.

Thank you again for a response that was detailed and cleared up the confusion we had. It is genuinely appreciated.
 

Arci

Community Manager
Staff member
(I'm falling asleep, I hope this post will make sense)
The discrepancy in reimbursement makes a lot more sense now. Many lower ranked players in my alliance received more than 500k gold. By the sounds of what you have said the rest of us have also received that amount, however it has been spent automatically in upgrading the equipment of our regiments.
Correct.

We were advised the best thing to do was to equip all of our best equipment. There is no denying this was not just poor advice, it was actually the opposite of what we should have done.
There is also a simple explanation for that. By looking at it now, it seems that equipping the best items has been a bad idea. Actually, it was the best idea, but only before the extra compensation round. Here's some more context.

When we switched from the old to the new system, this is what happened to your items:
Equipped -> Converted to the new system
Inventory -> Converted to a fixed amount of resources (as always, gold, ingots and cores)
No extra bonus as described in the other post.

In this scenario, a WL 23 (just an example) had two choices:
1) Equip a legendary item that would have been converted to a level ~30 and get a few extra resources from the mythical in the inventory.
2) Equip a mythical item that would have been converted to a level ~40 and get a few extra resources from the legendary in the inventory.

All items in the inventory have been converted for some gold, ingots and core. Keeping the mythical one in the inventory and the legendary equipped, wouldn't grant enough resources to upgrade from 30 to 40. Doing the opposite would have granted an item level 40 and some extra resources. Equipping the best item was by far the best choice, as we suggested.


After all of that, the upgrade came out, we posted the announcement and this feedback thread aaaaaand... we're at page 44, we all know what happened later :p

Many players pointed out that, for example, a WL23 had the opportunity to unequip his legendary and equip his mythical for free before the update, resulting in a level ~40 item, while the poor WL22 was stuck with his legendary (despite having a mythical sitting in the inventory that couldn't equip) that was converted to a level ~30 and then had to spend a large amount of gold, ingots and cores to reach level 40.
(This also includes cases of WL23 with non-mythical equipped for whatever reason like gear swapping the day we did the update)

By looking at the major discontent among the community we decided to run a second round of conversion that brought us to the situation we're in now, as more resources were granted to the players that were penalized the most by the flat conversion, giving every player the opportunity to reach the exact same items levels, as described in my previous post.

Since we couldn't just automatically equip a mythical item to an epic regiment, the players just got the equivalent amount of resources.


Now, by analyzing all this story from today, yes, it is clear that equipping the best item is no longer the best choice as it grants less freedom (equal amount of item levels though), but at the time it was said it also truly was the most profitable decision in order to benefit the most from the migration as it was designed.


I once again hope this is clear, and now time to go to bed. See you tomorrow :)
 

Cluun

Member
This actually isn't true, the same item got converted at the same rate for everyone, taking into consideration tier and level.

The only "exception" you may notice is whether the item was equipped during the migration or was in the inventory and a regiment had a lower level item of that type equipped.
Case A (equipped): The item got converted to an equivalent of the new system. Obviously for everyone with the exact same criteria. All mythical items level 13 have been converted into mythical items level 49 to give a numeric example.
Case B (inventory): The player received enough resources to upgrade the equipped item to an equivalent of case A.

The outcome is exactly the same in terms of final item obtainable, either you have let's say (Case A) a legendary weapon level 32 or (Case B) a common weapon level 3 and enough resources to upgrade it until tier legendary and level 32 (that is the same of Case A).

A valid criticism that has been moved is that having the resources instead of the fixed item allows you to in fact decide on upgrading a different item, that is true, but this does not mean that the same item has been converted for different values for different players. In terms of raw values (gold, ingots and cores) the conversion is perfectly matching.


That said, in case you are aware of a clear situation when two players got a different amount of resources for the same item, that not intended behaviour and can be considered as a bug. Please reach us out via support (you can find a quick path in the game settings) providing the IDs (or PvP names) of the two affected players so that our development team can compare what they received and take proper actions if the situation requires so.

I hope my explanation was clear enough, I'm now looking forward to receiving a support ticket from you with the aforementioned details so that our developers will be able to investigate.
Mythic weapons that had not been upgraded were compensated differently for lvl 23 warlords than lvl22 and below. This whole answer is "yes but we decided that doesn't matter because it's the same" No. It's not. FFS. Your formula to explain this away is a bs formula. Folks paid REAL MONEY for SPECIFIC ITEMS so refund the SAME THINGS for the SAME ITEMS.

Is it really that hard. I have so many better things to do than this but come on, folks. There is an elephant in the room.
 

RazorEdge

New Member
Thanks developers for give me useless junk with my well collected items. Really i need cores? I don't think so. But now i have 81 aureum cores... Ah... perhaps they will be useful if you developers create about 30 new units.... i hope my granddaughter can upgrade some units to level 60... using my account, of course.
 

RealBizkit666

Well-Known Member
(I'm falling asleep, I hope this post will make sense)

Correct.


There is also a simple explanation for that. By looking at it now, it seems that equipping the best items has been a bad idea. Actually, it was the best idea, but only before the extra compensation round. Here's some more context.

When we switched from the old to the new system, this is what happened to your items:
Equipped -> Converted to the new system
Inventory -> Converted to a fixed amount of resources (as always, gold, ingots and cores)
No extra bonus as described in the other post.

In this scenario, a WL 23 (just an example) had two choices:
1) Equip a legendary item that would have been converted to a level ~30 and get a few extra resources from the mythical in the inventory.
2) Equip a mythical item that would have been converted to a level ~40 and get a few extra resources from the legendary in the inventory.

All items in the inventory have been converted for some gold, ingots and core. Keeping the mythical one in the inventory and the legendary equipped, wouldn't grant enough resources to upgrade from 30 to 40. Doing the opposite would have granted an item level 40 and some extra resources. Equipping the best item was by far the best choice, as we suggested.


After all of that, the upgrade came out, we posted the announcement and this feedback thread aaaaaand... we're at page 44, we all know what happened later :p

Many players pointed out that, for example, a WL23 had the opportunity to unequip his legendary and equip his mythical for free before the update, resulting in a level ~40 item, while the poor WL22 was stuck with his legendary (despite having a mythical sitting in the inventory that couldn't equip) that was converted to a level ~30 and then had to spend a large amount of gold, ingots and cores to reach level 40.
(This also includes cases of WL23 with non-mythical equipped for whatever reason like gear swapping the day we did the update)

By looking at the major discontent among the community we decided to run a second round of conversion that brought us to the situation we're in now, as more resources were granted to the players that were penalized the most by the flat conversion, giving every player the opportunity to reach the exact same items levels, as described in my previous post.

Since we couldn't just automatically equip a mythical item to an epic regiment, the players just got the equivalent amount of resources.


Now, by analyzing all this story from today, yes, it is clear that equipping the best item is no longer the best choice as it grants less freedom (equal amount of item levels though), but at the time it was said it also truly was the most profitable decision in order to benefit the most from the migration as it was designed.


I once again hope this is clear, and now time to go to bed. See you tomorrow :)
It is so simple after the 2nd round of compensation (I leave cores out this since they aren't important at all to give an idea of the unfairness):
A level 22 warlord with 75 legendary items equiped and 75 mythicals in inventory got a shitload of gold and lapiseth ingots (and 75 aureum ingots).
A level 23 warlord with 75 mythical items equiped and 75 mythicals in inventory got 75k gold and only 75 auream ingots.

While the level 22 player theoretically can upgrade all his items to myhtical now once he and all regiments hit 23, he can also now only upgrade the top 5 regiments to have a higher top 5 AP then the poor level 23 player who can't choose this anymore (and so better PvP enemies and a bigger chance for top 100 and more rewards).

I still think there is only 1 solution for this, and I posted it already a few times. Item reset and rewarding everyone without any exception the exact same amount of materials for each used and unused item no matter it was equipable or not.

Edit:
I lost count by the way how many times I posted this the past week already. By reading your last sentence, haven't you read any of my posts then I wonder or was it a case of ignorance is bliss?
 
Last edited:

Marc1973

New Member
Hi guys,
I am new to this forum, so I want to make a proper introduction:
I am an elder player and on WoA I played already for about 1.5 years while enjoying it. Also, I liked Innogames for playing another good game from them in the past (forgot the name, sry).
After the update I got interested in this forum. Why? Because, the same as many above already explained, it ruins the game. Also I got intrigued how a greedy dev team can ruin a somewhat okay game into trash and still try to defend this choice (very rarely, but still).

I can agree to the feedback many of you guys are making on this forum. Also, I saw members complain that the dev team poorly responded on their valued feedback.

What I did?
After 3 days trying in the new system I concluded to uninstall the game and gave WoA a 1 star on google play. And guess what? Innogames responded to that!

For me this is the end of WoA, I am going somewhere else. But also, I whill scratch my ears twice before installing a new innogames game.
Bye guys, it was nice while it lasted.
 

Catarax

Active Member
Equiping your best item was defintely the best choice, cause if you equiped a common item, and leave the mythical ones in your inventory, you got enough stuff to upgrade to mythical, but not the stuff to ugrade the inbetween stages, upgrading from common to legendary et cetera. Only if you equiped your best items, you now lack the freedom to choose which units you want to upgrade, and since those units changed alongside with the NIS, some players got a disadvantage. They bet on the wrong horses. Some might say, it's a whole new race altogether, cause the horses aren't the same anymore and you're now always stuck with the first horses you've betted on. It would have been more neat to strip ALL items from the players, and give a compensation that includes being able to upgrade the inbetween stages from common to mythical, if the item was a mythical item.

That said, there's another big elephant in the room, that we aren't noticing because of all the other elephants: ALL future tweaking of units will now lead to problems. You actually tied your hands to EVER make changes to the current units. Every time you do want to make a change you'll have to be very very carefull and probably give all players their weapon investment back for that unit. Let alone reimbursing players that bought shards with real money, cause their unit has been nerfed. If you make the unit better, the players without that unit will complain. If you make it less good, all players with that unit at lvl 60 will be pissed off.

I'm very worried that this game will never be able to improve much anymore. It used to revolve around items, which gave players a lot of freedom, since you could change them around and you had different types. Now the focus has been changed , the game revolves around units instead , which are stationarry and can't be adapted. Sigh.... the old item system wasn't prefect, but I do really really want it back.
 
A couple of points

Have people noticed that the LW seems to now give less shards and more upgrade items ( or is it me)

Secondly the PvP are much harder ESP with the 1kill criticals that now seem to be the norm. Before I could move my best kit around to have a go at even 4* levels. Now while 3*are doable I can loose 2-3 regiments so can do less per day (unless of course I buy gems ....oh look more monitoization)
 

Hagar

Member
My initial reaction to the changeover was very negative. But sine the level two recompensation I am not so disappointed. While it did t restore my rank to what it was. It has allowed me to start using units that I could t before. I like this.
In fact all of them are now pretty useful, whereas before a lot weren’t.

There is more complexity in the upgrading model. But that doesn’t really matter does it? It’s still WOA. And I still enjoy it. Well, now the ingots are reachable on a daily basis.

All things considered, for me, it’s all ok. Now please get on with developing some new content!!
 

SirMaximus

Active Member
The horse is out of the corral on this one. And long gone.
IG is only going to amend and tweak.
They have done so already to some degree regarding player response.
Their recent relative silence or deflection is indicative of the state of affairs.
Are they listening? Yes and no.
At this time it might be more helpful if they provide survey questions on various issues so as to ascertain the actual number of people who participate in the forum and in proportion to the complaints expressed here.
 

BlackAdder666

Well-Known Member
I took my quote from the very first post in this thread. Same is said in video. And in numerous other posts made by different community managers. Kerozard tried to convey an explanation, but that only explained how to get a few more/less WC and harder/easier pvp battles - it DID NOT EXPLAIN how to cheat and spawn more 199 trophy battles than is supposed to ordinarily happen.

Can anyone explain the pvp exploit @Bruthor @Bryfft @Arci ?
 

Ushurak@adventures

Well-Known Member
I dont know how exactly it happens but i think that it works as followed. They had best gear on at timepoint of the pvp switch. That was where i got the best trophies when i was awaken for rerolls. Unfortunately a bad timepoint for me for one of them in the night.

Then they switched to bad gears. If you rerolled at this timepoint you get their ones. My point average droped for 1 point the last 2 month before the upgrade. I think because a higher amount of people has done it and i got their easier less powerfull units. Then they switched back lately which gave a boost when rerolling by a glitch. Something like aha he had 194 with 5k power whitch was in reality 16k. Now its 16k. He had to get better ones.

They perhaps found out by switching from legendary to mythical items
 
Last edited: