FEEDBACK Version 0.76

elderly

Member
The maximum energy accumulated for Story Battle lifted to 120 is ok but why the energy for battle or farming increased.
Minimum energy increases from 4 to 6 for the first stage and energy for stage 50 increases from 12 to 18. It takes much more time to accumulate energy for either battle or farming. Does Developers just want to force players to pay to buy energy?
 

ssn

Member
Here is a small analitics of quest changes.
It was: at stage 1-12: 38 rewards coins for 4 Energy (9.5 coins per energy)
13-17:49 coins per 5 Energy (9.8 coins per energy)
18-22:61 coins per 6 Energy (10.16 coins per energy)
23-26:78 coins per 7 Energy (11.14 coins per energy)
27:30:84 coins per 8 Energy (10.5 coins per energy)
31-35:100 coins per 9 Energy (11.1 coins per energy)
36-40:114 coins per 10 Energy (11.4 coins per energy)
21-45:128 coins per 11 Energy (11.6 coins per energy)
46-50: ??? coins per 12 Energy (???)
And due to energy gain 1 per 3.5 min we had 11.6/3.5=3.32 rewards coins per 1 minute.

Now it is:
1-8: 42 coins per 6 Energy (7 coins per energy)
9-16: 58 coins per 8 Energy (7.25 coins per energy)
17-24: 74 coins per 10 Energy (7.4 coins per energy)
25-32: 90 coins per 12 Energy (7.5 coins per energy)
33-40: 107 coins per 14 Energy (7.64 coins per energy)
40-48: 124 coins per 16 Energy (7.65 coins per energy)
49-50: 141 coins per 18 Energy (7.83 coins per energy)
And NOW we have energy gain 1 per 4 min, so now we have 7.83/4=1.95 rewards coins per 1 minute.

Was: 3.32 rewards coins per 1 minute.
Now: 1.95 rewards coins per 1 minute.

It seems to be not "a little bit" :)

Next: we had energy maximum =50 and energy gain = 3.5 min, so full enegry refresh we had 50*3.5/60=2.91 hours, and for full energy we could gain 50/11*128=581 coins.
Now we have energy maximum =120 and energy gain = 4 min, so full enegry refresh we have 120*4/60=8 hours, and for full energy we could gain 120/18*141=940 coins.

Was: 581 coins per ~3 hours.
Now: 940 coins per 8 hours.
So 160% coins grow with 275% time grow.

Not so good as for me.
 
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Arci

Community Manager
Staff member
Was: 581 coins per ~3 hours.
First of all, thanks for the feedback :)

Let me just highlight something here, the decrease is effective if you're willing to open the game every 2.91h as per your calculations.
If let's say one day you decide you want to sleep 8h and maybe you get the collection time (full energy) during lunch or dinner or at work and you can't exactly connect every 2.91h, but maybe every 4 hours, you would reach the end of the day with 4/5 full farms, rather than the 10.9 you could theoretically get maths-wise.

That's exactly where the gain is, as having a full recovery in 8h allows you to sleep or have a full-time shift without having to worry about collecting the loot 8 times a day to not lose the maximum potential.
In this case, the new system actually allows you to get from 5 out of 10.9 collections (if you sleep + miss one) to 3 out of 3 (every 8 hours) and I see here a 100% growth :)

And it's just math, we're not even considering the stress that may apply for someone who feels forced to open the game every 3 hours (night included) to avoid "potential losses" ;)
 

ssn

Member
First of all, thanks for the feedback :)

Let me just highlight something here, the decrease is effective if you're willing to open the game every 2.91h as per your calculations.
If let's say one day you decide you want to sleep 8h and maybe you get the collection time (full energy) during lunch or dinner or at work and you can't exactly connect every 2.91h, but maybe every 4 hours, you would reach the end of the day with 4/5 full farms, rather than the 10.9 you could theoretically get maths-wise.

That's exactly where the gain is, as having a full recovery in 8h allows you to sleep or have a full-time shift without having to worry about collecting the loot 8 times a day to not lose the maximum potential.
In this case, the new system actually allows you to get from 5 out of 10.9 collections (if you sleep + miss one) to 3 out of 3 (every 8 hours) and I see here a 100% growth :)

And it's just math, we're not even considering the stress that may apply for someone who feels forced to open the game every 3 hours (night included) to avoid "potential losses" ;)
Yep, you are absolutely right: 8 hours better then 3 for those people, who dont often play this game.
But as for me, a didnt wait refreshing energy to 50 points and i enter the game every 1-2-3 hours and spent all available energy, so all loses was at night.
Lets calculate:
Was: ~7 hours for sleep +2.91h+2.91h+2.91h+2.91h+2.91h+2.91h = ~7 times * 581 = ~4000 coins per day (with the loosing 4 hours).
Now: 8h+8h+8h=3 times * 940=2820 coins per day --- is a MAX.
So, this update is good for people who plays 3-4 times per day in this game and is bad for people who enters >5 times per day.
P.S. And a secondary moment: earlier i needed to spend 9 energy (31.5 min) to get a chance to get 100000XP potion. Now i need to spend 14 energy points (56 min) to get a chance to get 100000XP potion.
 
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RealBizkit666

Well-Known Member
First of all, thanks for the feedback :)

Let me just highlight something here, the decrease is effective if you're willing to open the game every 2.91h as per your calculations.
If let's say one day you decide you want to sleep 8h and maybe you get the collection time (full energy) during lunch or dinner or at work and you can't exactly connect every 2.91h, but maybe every 4 hours, you would reach the end of the day with 4/5 full farms, rather than the 10.9 you could theoretically get maths-wise.

That's exactly where the gain is, as having a full recovery in 8h allows you to sleep or have a full-time shift without having to worry about collecting the loot 8 times a day to not lose the maximum potential.
In this case, the new system actually allows you to get from 5 out of 10.9 collections (if you sleep + miss one) to 3 out of 3 (every 8 hours) and I see here a 100% growth :)

And it's just math, we're not even considering the stress that may apply for someone who feels forced to open the game every 3 hours (night included) to avoid "potential losses" ;)
Old 5 out of 10.9 is coinwise more then the new 3 out of 3. So it's a loss for almost every warlords then. And there is already a 2 hour LW battle that "has" to be played. So the stress to login more often is not taken away by removing a 3 hour timer. Yeah, if you only look at this feature, but not for the entire game. :)

But, I'm happy with the changes. For leveling units we needed to take them into battle. With the farm options there was no longer a need for that. I farmed over 1.5 million XP per day with just hitting the farm button. That is way more then I could get with battling in the strongholds with underpowered regiments.
 
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Primer

Well-Known Member
First of all, thanks for the feedback :)

Let me just highlight something here, the decrease is effective if you're willing to open the game every 2.91h as per your calculations.
If let's say one day you decide you want to sleep 8h and maybe you get the collection time (full energy) during lunch or dinner or at work and you can't exactly connect every 2.91h, but maybe every 4 hours, you would reach the end of the day with 4/5 full farms, rather than the 10.9 you could theoretically get maths-wise.

That's exactly where the gain is, as having a full recovery in 8h allows you to sleep or have a full-time shift without having to worry about collecting the loot 8 times a day to not lose the maximum potential.
In this case, the new system actually allows you to get from 5 out of 10.9 collections (if you sleep + miss one) to 3 out of 3 (every 8 hours) and I see here a 100% growth :)

And it's just math, we're not even considering the stress that may apply for someone who feels forced to open the game every 3 hours (night included) to avoid "potential losses" ;)
What a fantastic concept!

(And since tone of voice doesn’t come through in a written message I will point out the above is said with complete sarcasm).

You are basically telling us you have implemented a change to make things “better” for the occasional player who logs in only once or twice per day while making it much worse for those who play the game a lot.

Thanks for letting us know your priorities. It explains a lot about recent changes (eliminating earning Diamonds, a “story” that makes no sense, ridiculously easy Bard’s tale fights, reducing high level upgrade drops, etc).

You are trying to encourage players to play LESS, not more.

Congratulations. It is working.

A lot of long time players are actually taking the logical next step. Instead of just playing less often, they are choosing not to play at all. Well done.
 
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Pyrrhus

Member
This may turn out to be OK, but I’m skeptical. If the rewards include additional items like potions, then maybe...? Curious as to what “survey” led to this decision?

I realize that this game has a very wide array of users and needs, so one size does not fit all, I just wonder if there’s a path that’s been planned, or if we’re just kind of reacting to things like a cue ball striking a rack and seeing where the balls go. Probably both.

I started this game knowing, based upon pace, that it would take time, but it seems that there are many players looking to end this game in a few months. I hope there is no end to this game, just a way to keep players of all levels, and especially fully upgraded players, playing for a reason.

Stepping down from the soapbox now.
 

Primer

Well-Known Member
Maybe I am just a grumpy old man. To me the concept of getting more compensation for being willing to work more is just a way of life. Everyone can choose how much effort they want to put in and be rewarded in proportion to that effort.

Instead it seems the Devs are trying to make sure that an “occasional” player progresses at the same rate as someone who plays all day long.

If that is the goal then the changes they are making are working just fine. I just don’t agree with the concept. To me hard work deserves more rewards.
 

ssn

Member
Maybe I am just a grumpy old man. To me the concept of getting more compensation for being willing to work more is just a way of life. Everyone can choose how much effort they want to put in and be rewarded in proportion to that effort.

Instead it seems the Devs are trying to make sure that an “occasional” player progresses at the same rate as someone who plays all day long.

If that is the goal then the changes they are making are working just fine. I just don’t agree with the concept. To me hard work deserves more rewards.
There is one more thing has been changed: earlier for the 50 crystals you gained 50 energy (581 coins) and now you gain 120 energy (940 coins).
Maybe it matters :)
 

AngelRipper

Active Member
I think, the tavern update allowed players to progress too fast. The amount of epic potions dropped was just crazy, it was unbalanced and I felt it. So I understand the devs want to take a step back, reduce tavern rewards a bit - I get it. What I don't understand is the game developers (in the name of Arci) trying to convince us, that the bad thing is actually a good think for the players. I mean how stupid do you actually think we are?
 

Arci

Community Manager
Staff member
I think, the tavern update allowed players to progress too fast. The amount of epic potions dropped was just crazy, it was unbalanced and I felt it. So I understand the devs want to take a step back, reduce tavern rewards a bit - I get it. What I don't understand is the game developers (in the name of Arci) trying to convince us, that the bad thing is actually a good think for the players. I mean how stupid do you actually think we are?
I'm not trying to convince anyone that the update is good for everyone, I was just pointing out that in fact it allows casual players to relax a little bit without being forced to wake up at 2AM and again at 5AM in the morning to make sure to maximize their output :)

That said, feel free to keep sharing your feedbacks, they're a lot helpful for us to balance the game as much as possible to provide the best gaming experience to the widest range of players as possible.
 

Zancudo

Well-Known Member
I really think that with the introduction of quests, both from the alliance and from the tavern, it is much easier (almost absurd) to raise all regiments to 5 *. There have been many players, (among which I include myself) that it took to us 2 or 3 years to get it. I think it is an intentional change from developers, but in my opinion, it does not benefit anything to the development of the game.
 

AngelRipper

Active Member
I am sorry Arci, but that doesn't seem like an legitimate explanation considering that there already is another feature of the game called Loot Wagon that "forces" players to login and fight a battle every 2 hours (it actually takes longer than farming ;)). Nobody forces anyone to play, login etc. There is still free will right? If we were to believe this is real cause of the change, that would mean the game devs wish the players to play less. Is that the intention of Innogames?
 

Firzen

Member
Everybody who is complaining now didn't say anything when the tavern update first came out and the feedback thread was littered with people complaining about having to login every 3 hours.

Those complaints led to this.

I don't know what to say here because I see what I came to say has already been said many times. But this is the exact reason I was mad at all those other people complaining about having to log in, because I knew something like this would happen. And it seems like I was the only one who was speaking up against their complaints.

The developers care about feedback. It seems like the only feedback they get is complaints. It's hard to make a game from that.
 

Arci

Community Manager
Staff member
If we were to believe this is real cause of the change, that would mean the game devs wish the players to play less. Is that the intention of Innogames?
Actually several players complained that the previous balancing of energy was "forcing" them to connect too often than they would like to, and no, the goal is to make it more balanced as already said :)

Let's give it a try and we'll see in the next few weeks if this is reeeeally bad or it may work. We're always in time to make changes :)